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Phyrra is alive! ...Probably. (Massive spoilers, seriously)

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  • Zkaletus

    Zkaletus

    #33268144 - 1 year ago

    (last chance to avoid spoilers!)


    All right, so as we all know, Phyrra dies at the end of season 3. It’s a shocking twist for those who don’t expect it, and a legitimately horrible death scene – the choking gasps, the dissolving into sparks, the –


    Wait, what?


    Yeah, that bit was weird. She dissolves into sparks. Now, you could easily say this is just the developers’ way of making her death pg for the kid viewers of the show. It’d be pretty hardcore to see a protagonist die choking on her own blood. Nevertheless, everyone would agree that she is undisputably dead.


    I disagree.


    At first, it was denial. Then, as I went back over the season, I realize that she couldn’t be dead. Really.

    We’ll come back to the actual death – for now, please, indulge me for a few moments, as I recap Phyrra’s “final” story arc during the second half of Season 3. Trust me, we’ll get to where I’m going eventually.


    It all starts in S3E6, where Ozpin meets Phyrra to tell her of the four maidens. To make a long story short, wandering around the RWBY universe, there are four women, each of whom represents a season. They’re essentially minor gods/superheroes, traveling and doing good as they bring their gifts to the land. What’s more, when a maiden dies, her powers leave her body and seek out a new host, ensuring the seasons are never lost, and that no one person holds the power forever.


    That said, Ozpin tells Phyrra that she is suspected to be the next reincarnation of the fall maiden, through what Crow accurately describes as “a series of stupid and convoluted rules.” Basically, the final person who’s in the maidens’ thoughts as she dies is the one who gets the power next.


    However, with the latest Fall Maiden, Amber, something’s gone wrong – someone, who we later learn is Cinder (cough bitch cough) – has stolen a portion of the Fall Maiden’s power through an unknown means. As a result, Amber is currently weak and dying, in a secret vault under the city.


    In addition, as the one who was in the maiden’s thoughts last is the one who gets the power, this presents a serious problem if the maiden is murdered or severely injured – her thoughts will almost involuntarily be of her attacker as she dies.


    The headmasters have devised a desperate gambit – to manipulate Amber’s aura into transferring over to Phyrra. Basically, they want to make her into an alternate Cinder, this one on their side. This is monstrous, as they admit – they’re basically killing Amber and taking her soul from her - but if Amber dies, there’s a good chance the powers will seek out her other half – her assailant, Cinder. If Cinder gets the Fall Maiden’s full powers, of course, the good guys are in deep shit. This is their only chance to prevent that.


    Having heard all of this, Phyrra naturally needs time to think about this dangerous power transfer – for all she and the headmasters know, her mind will be overwritten by Amber’s, or the transfer might not work, or she’ll just plain die. The headmasters allow her time to think – but they will need her answer by the end of the vital festival (season 3).


    Jumping forward, in S3E11, the city (god I’m bad with location names) is under mass attack. Phyrra, Ozpin and Jaun (John? Joan?) run down the vault, the fall maiden's powers being their last hope for saving the city. Phyrra gets into a transfer machine doohickey which will basically give her the fall maiden’s aura, and hopefully, powers.


    Now, here’s where things get interesting. As the power transfer begins, we can clearly see Amber blinking (back to this in a second.) Nobody notices, however, and the transfer begins, causing Phyrra intense pain. Amber appears to be gradually waking up, but unfortunately, Cinder (cough BITCH cough) shows up at exactly the wrong time, and puts an arrow in the weakened Amber, killing her. Bad goes to worse, as not only does the transfer revert the power to Amber, as she dies, the power leaves amber and goes to Cinder, essentially making her the bootleg Fall Maiden.


    From there, things are fairly straightforward – Cinder escapes, Phyrra goes after her (kissing Jaun in the process, yay!) and after a fight, she meets her untimely end.


    Now, why have I told you all of this? Well, as you can see, the whole Fall maiden thing with Phyrra was clearly a well-thought-out plot element by the developers – we even see her debating the moral ethics of it with Jaun in one episode. However, here’s the six-million-dollar question.


    What was the point?


    Now, I hate breaking the immersion and looking at the technical aspects of a story as anyone, but it is unfortunately necessary if we’re to see the big picture. If Phyrra dies, what was the point of her whole “fall maiden” arc? When you think about it, she could have easily been left out of it – we could have just had the headmasters exposit about the maidens and the attack on amber without bringing in Phyrra. They could even have killed Phyrra off without bringing up the maiden thing at all – just have Cinder’s fire come from her semblance or whatever. In other words, from a storytelling point of view, what was the point of Phyrra’s fall maiden heritage if she literally dies and doesn’t get shit out of it?


    Now, here’s where things get a bit theory-y, so bear with me. We clearly saw Amber being conscious on at least some level as the transfer took place. What’s more, we saw the transfer beginning to take place in Phyrra. The question is, even though Amber died, the powers should have continued transferring into Phyrra – heck, they should have transferred faster, now that Amber’s aura was nonexistent. Instead, we explicitly see the powers go back through Amber into Cinder.


    Here’s my thoughts - I think that Amber felt the power transferring, and it woke her up. On some level, she knew that she was dying, and the person on the other end of the transfer would make a good host. Ordinarily, she would choose the next host herself, but these are not ordinary circumstances by any means. However, even though Amber knew Phyrra was the proper host, the powers still went to Cinder. Why? Simple. Amber didn’t know who Phyrra was. She knew her powers were being transferred to a (hopefully) worthy host, but she couldn’t picture her in her mind, therefore she couldn’t properly transfer her remaining powers to her. As a result, the Amber’s powers defaulted to return to their other half.


    Do you see what I’m getting at?


    No?


    Right. Let’s put this another way.


    Why did Ozpin choose Phyrra to be the next fall maiden? Yes, you could easily argue that he could choose based solely on fighting skill and value of heart, and to an extent, he might have. However, Amber had never known Phyrra, and Ozpin knew it. Wouldn’t it make more sense to pick someone related to or friends with Amber, so that she could picture them more easily, and transfer to her more easily? However, he chose Phyrra, and I think I know why. The reason he chose Phyrra was for a reason that even Ozpin himself could not comprehend.


    Remember Phyrra’s big theme throughout late season 3 – Destiny. Like the fall maiden arc, it was no whim that drove the developers to have Phyrra talk about fate and destiny like this. Phyrra’s definition of destiny, as she says in S3E8, is “some sort of final goal… something you work towards your entire life.” She continues to basically say that she’s now not sure what her destiny is – whether it is to be a huntress, or the fall maiden.


    I think that Ozpin choosing Phyrra was destiny. On some level, Phyrra was born the fall maiden, and she would become the fall maiden whether she chose to or not. However, this is contradicted by Phyrra’s definition of destiny – that it’s, to some extent, something that you choose, and work towards your entire life. Phyrra can visibly be seen hesitating and pausing throughout the episodes of late season 3, and I think this is as she figures out what I think I’ve (maybe) figured out.


    I think, in an ideal world – no cinder or nothing – Phyrra would have become a fall maiden AND a huntress. Her destiny wasn’t to be one or the other – it was to be both. I mean, adult Hunters/huntresses already travel around the world doing good and whatnot – what’s to stop her from using her huntress skills AND help others as the fall maiden? Phyrra is, and always was, meant to be the fall maiden – one way or another, she would have gotten the powers. It was her destiny.


    Cinder, however, had different plans. She took a hammer and wrench to destiny itself, in stealing a portion of the powers from Amber. Therefore, she took the powers for herself, and left the true heir, Phyrra, without them.


    Everything is determined, though, by Phyrra’s final line before Cinder kills her. “Do you believe in destiny?” Now, this may just be a poignant statement – I mean, I didn’t expect her to beg or insult Cinder. Still, though, it doesn’t make sense. I mean, if she’d followed it up with “because you’re destined to lose” or something, it could just be a witty snap, but she just leaves it like that. I almost think that her line wasn’t to Cinder, but to the audience, giving them a hint.


    And this brings us to Phyrra’s death. Again, she doesn’t just fall over like a normal person, she explicitly flashes, glows orange, and dissolves into particles, which are blown away on the wind… like falling leaves.


    Phyrra didn’t die. Well, she did. But not really.


    The powers of the seasons are meant to be used to help people – not to harm and control them. Cinder is the definition of an unworthy heir to the powers. Cinder clearly was using her stolen season-powers to attack Phyrra. Maybe as they fought, the powers recognized Phyrra – they recognized her as the true heir to the powers, and… well, I’ll come back to this.


    Alternatively, Phyrra could have said “do you believe in destiny” because she had faith that this was not her destiny. Wishful thinking or not, Phyrra knew that her destiny was something more than this.


    Okay, with all this said, with all the facts laid on the table, here’s what I think really happened. Phyrra did not die. It was literally not her destiny to die like this. Like I said, in an ideal world, Phyrra would have just straight up gotten the powers. Considering Cinder’s meddling, though, things have taken a more roundabout turn. You ever see that trope where the guy goes to heaven, but St Peter says “It’s not your time” and sends him back? I think it’s like that, only without the whole heaven part.


    While RWBY may be American-made, it is still – obviously – heavily based on Japanese animation and culture. Little history lesson on Japanese religion – Many Japanese believe not in heaven or hell, but rather in reincarnation and the void. Reincarnation is basically the best you can hope for – your soul gets reincarnated into a new form, and while you have no memories of your previous life, you still retain some traits of your previous form. However, evil and cruel people go to the void, where their soul is lost forever.


    Phyrra is not dead. She has been reincarnated.


    Now, at first glance, there really isn’t a difference between reincarnation and flat out death. Yeah, her soul is still alive, but it’s in another form and without her memories, so the Phyrra we know essentially doesn’t exist anymore. However, be it by destiny or by the seasonal powers, Phyrra has not been traditionally reincarnated. Instead, she’s essentially been broken down into a Phyrra-shaped jigsaw puzzle of aura and essence – and it’s the fates’ job to stitch the parts of her back together.


    With all this put together – the fall maiden arc, the talk of destiny, the bizzare death scene, and the concept of reincarnation – I think it’s honestly inevitable that Phyrra return, even if she’s in a different form. She WILL be back – it’s destiny.


    TL:DR – Phyrra isn’t dead, for it is not her destiny. She’s the true fall maiden, and will return to reclaim her powers.


    What do you guys think?

  • ImmaThinkin

    ImmaThinkin

    #33268157 - 1 year ago

    I'm pretty sure Pyrrha is dead, and it has a little bit to do with the historical backgrounds of not only her, but the rest of team JNPR. Jaune- Joan of Arc, burnt at the stake by the Cardinal of Winchester. Nora- Thor, killed by a snake during Ragnarok AKA the Asgardian apocalypse. Pyrrha- Achilles, shot in the ankle and finished off by Ajax. Ren- Hua Mulan, chose suicide over becoming a concubine (according to one version of the story).


    Also, disintegration after being shot in the heart- not very easy to survive. I hope they find a way to resurrect her in some way (there are a few intriguing versions that I've heard, and one that I've developed), but for the time being, she's presumed dead, and rightly so.

  • Liela

    Liela Aim to Misbehave

    #33268389 - 1 year ago

    I admire the creativity of the fandom in coming up with seemingly dozens of ways that Pyrrha could have survived. And it speaks to the talent of the writers when any one character they create is so beloved among the fandom that folks simply won't accept her death. That being said...


    Pyrrha fought until her aura was completely depleted -- she had NO protection left. The lack of her aura was made clear when the arrow went through her heel. AFTER she had no aura, no protection left, she was shot through the heart. That would be a very difficult, if not impossible, wound to survive, even with immediate medical attention, which Pyrrha did not get. AFTER she was shot through the heart, she was disintegrated into pretty golden sparklies -- or Cinder simply cremated her. Cinder seemed to be planning to set up her little lemonade stand on the tower. Would you want a rotting corpse on your roof? Have you ever smelled a rotting corpse? It's not a pretty smell. I believe Cinder cremated her to keep her brand new living space halfway clean. That's my personal take on the death scene.


    There is ONE fishy thing about it, and that's Pyrrha's crown. You can take Cinder removing her crown as the literal dethroning of the rightful Fall Maiden, or you can take it as that Cinder sent Pyrrha away somehow, and her crown is similar to Ozpin's cane in that regard. BUT to go that route, you'd still have to magic up a way for an aura-depleted fighter to survive an arrow through the heart, and that will take some serious magic from the "Pyrrha's Alive!" camp.


    Now, as for all the "why's" -- why the destiny stuff, why the Fall Maiden stuff, why the lead-up?


    First, why with the lead-up? To create tension. To make sure we're both nervous and hopeful. That's just how writing works -- if your audience isn't emotionally invested, you did it wrong. And a great way to make sure your audience is emotionally invested is to create tension. And giving us a glimmer of hope in the face of horrifying odds keeps us rather invested.


    Why with the Fall Maiden stuff? To let us know how very dangerous Cinder has become. To let us know how very vile she is, that she'd steal something like that, that she'd murder a defenseless, helpless Amber who couldn't even try to evade her or fight back. To let us know that there are three more of these women out there, and maybe make us wonder if they are good like Amber or bad like Cinder. Can we trust them?


    Why with the destiny? Because fridging. Do you think Ruby's silver eye power would have activated for anything less than a truly traumatic event? Perhaps Pyrrha's destiny was to unlock Ruby's destiny all along. (Ugh, such disrespect to Pyrrha's character if that's true.) Why would Pyrrha ask? Perhaps she took comfort, in her final moments, from knowing that someone else (even if it's her opponent) believes in destiny too, and that this, then, was her destiny. Maybe it's a subtle slap in the face to Cinder, to tell her that sooner or later, Cinder's own destiny will catch up to her -- and given what a bitch Cinder is, if karma has anything to do with her destiny, it's not going to be nice to her. She'll get hers, sooner or later, and Pyrrha's just too polite and classy to tell that to her any other way.


    I know that the "Pyrrha's Alive!" camp and the "No, She's Not!" camp are never going to agree on this. And I'm pretty sure we're all sick as dicks of arguing over it. We've all heard every argument and then some from the other side, and none of us are ever going to change our mind any time soon. So most of the time, I try not to respond to this particular debate anymore. It's irritating to argue in circles over the same two or three points of conflict. So I wanted to let you know that the reason I did respond to you was because you had some original ideas that I hadn't seen much of, and I wanted to thank you for that.


    I may not like that she's dead, but I do think she's dead. If she comes back, fine, but only if it's well-done. 


    We're never going to agree, and that's okay. I appreciate you bringing something new to the table, though.

  • TriNeX

    TriNeX

    #33268394 - 1 year ago

    In the Kübler-Ross model or the five stages of grief, there's this thing we call the denial stage. Clearly, you guys are still at that and haven't moved on yet.


    Get over it, she's dead already. Move on to the other four (anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.) bud.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33268425 - 1 year ago

    First the funny thing is people assume Cinder shot her in the heart.

    As we saw with the Shield Cinder is able to reshape her arrows in mid flight with no connection to it at all.

    tumblr_inline_o2ls8sxdU21t8katf_540.png

    Pyrrha when she is shot her chest wound glows which outside of Yang, who still has her aura when her wound happens and thus may not be the same case, no one else has that and we see Amber literally dying from a chest wound and no glow.

    So its very possible Cinder did the same trick to avoid her heart BUT give her a nasty enough wound that where ever Pyrrha ends up she is in no state to fight back.


    Next up medical.

    As we see with Ironwood RWBY medical tech is LEAP YEARS above our own there is no way with our tech levels you could have that much replacement and be at all like Ironwood.

    It takes 3-5 minutes for your brain to lose enough O2 for irreversabile brain damage Pyrrha went to Particle well with in that mark.


    So just with the stuff we SEE in the show itself no guesses just things we are shown we already have 2 ways Pyrrha could have survived.


    If Cinder was going to kidnap Pyrrha the idea that she lined up a shot had all the time in the world and still took a heart shot without the ability to fix it or make it so it wasnt a long term deal is silly.

    Cinder is a Planner and that wasnt a rush job shot where she got a lucky shot in. So if she did it and was going to capture Pyrrha she would make sure she got there and was able to be used.


    Also funfact about biology you can have a displaced heart which pushes your heart out of line of the center this is called sinistrocardia. If Pyrrha had that then while the arrow is a SERIOUS wound it would miss her heart and a chest wound so long as it doesnt nick important veins and so on can be handled. And Because Pyrrha is a famous champion that biology fact would be known.


    At the end of the day this is a story one set in a world where Magic does exist and tech that is well beyond ours is a common thing. If Kerry and Miles are going to have Pyrrha come back they can easily do it.


    People who are saying that there is 5 stages of grief and like comments ignore this isnt real life its a story one that has introduced several plot twists. People are seeing "Odd" things about Pyrrha's death that is different to other peoples deaths we see on screen.

    With a CG story like RWBY that isnt just something random that is put in for a reason. Is that reason her revival? I dont know.


    Now as for the whole it cheapens her death and cheapens death.....no it doesnt.

    The only way it cheapens her death is if she just comes back poof fine and whole no issues. WHich to be clear almost no one in the Pyrrha revival camp wants. If Pyrrha did survive like how most people think she did then she is in Salem's hands and that isnt going to be a pretty subject.

    Pyrrha is going to come out competely different because of it and that is without her being forced to do stuff for Salem thrown into the mix.

    It doesnt cheapen her death it makes it WORSE because now Pyrrha is literally doing something that is completely opposite her desires and wishes and she may have to sit there in her own body and WATCH it attack and try to murder her friends.


    Now why does it not cheapen death? Because Death has already happened. We have seen Merc's dad, tukson, Roman, Amber, and Penny die. Penny is special because she is a robot so she might work under different rules but the rest were often brutal or just cruel in their deaths.

    So even without Pyrrha death being not only a thing but something that can and will happen has already been well built.

    What Pyrrha coming back actually means is that "Death" to Cinder or Salem may not be dead you are gone but you come back fighting for the other side destroying everything you hold dear. In a lot of ways its like Zombies where Cinder and Salem become the bite.


    So it just underlines that Cinder and Salem are fates WORSE then death.

    Now some might ask well what about amber? Amber in the Maiden info had to die so Cinder could get the fall maiden powers so her very situation assured her death because without a grimm glove that was the only way to get the powers.

  • Jianju

    Jianju FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold {zzz}°°°( -_-)>c[_]

    #33277835 - 11 months ago

    In reply to ImmaThinkin

    In reply to Liela

    In reply to TriNeX

    @ImmaThinkin

    @Liela
    @TriNeX
    Be prepared, in 3 weeks or less, the reply is coming.


    Ohohohoho!

    ohohoho.gif


  • TriNeX

    TriNeX

    #33277868 - 11 months ago

    If she's dead then fine, let it stay that way.

    But if she's alive, they better execute it well and not look like a cliched piece of shit.



  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33278035 - 11 months ago

    In reply to TriNeX

    That is what a LOT of us are hoping for.

    There will of course be some cliche because at this point its almost impossible not to bump a cliche but they can do it while still being mostly unique.

  • ImmaThinkin

    ImmaThinkin

    #33278137 - 11 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Do you remember the fan-fiction I came up with awhile back? The one where the character with control over gravity sucks Pyrrha up with a 'black hole', distills her soul from her ashes, then implants her soul into a new body?


    Would that be cliche?

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33278150 - 11 months ago

    In reply to ImmaThinkin

    Yes because that character is a Gary Stue from what I recall.

    Cliches and Tropes happen they happen because they are repeated events both in stories and our lives. Of course some more then others the issue is how obvious is it a cliche and how often does it happen.

    With your story you are literally introducing a character that is super powerful and smart to save Pyrrha. Is extremely obvious what you are doing.

    Most of the theories that are about saving Pyrrha use less the idea of some outside force interacting but the forces that are already known doing something and we the audience are being fooled because we dont know better.


    Basically its about looking at events slightly different to see if that does in fact change anything and the fact its really easy to do so and there is a lot of things that support the idea its possible. Your idea is an all out fix it cliche and not working within the events.


    Does that mean its not possible? No because there is a lot about RWBY we just dont know so a lot of stuff is still on the table.

  • ImmaThinkin

    ImmaThinkin

    #33278160 - 11 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Alright. Thanks for the input. Would anything along the lines of what I jotted down work if done slightly differently, perhaps a massive search by the Atlesian military for all of her ashes to turn her into an AI-controlled soldier like Penny?

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33278167 - 11 months ago

    In reply to ImmaThinkin

    No because why would they do that?

    First rule of something WHY.

    Always ask yourself whyis something happening.

    For example Cinder taking Pyrrha has the fact she can be used for political strife which if done right can call in grimm making Cinder's job easier, gives her a powerful warrior, and a useful set of extra hands so long as she can control Pyrrha.


    For Atlas you would need to explain why they would go to such efforts for her especially in an area heavily occupied by grimm and also the massive political fall-out from Cinder's attack that painted them as the bad guys.

    And that is just to start it off.


    I am unsure if you could do it not having gone over everything you have written on the subject.

    One way that might work is the Aura machine could have an imprint of Pyrrha on it its not actually her her just an afterimage kind of thing and that is how it works. But that is just a rough idea.

  • ImmaThinkin

    ImmaThinkin

    #33278192 - 11 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Why? She was "the best fighter in the school"- if somehow the technology was there to make her into a weapon the Atlesians could wield, possibly in the form of a robot that can keep fighting all-out for hours at a time, that could seriously help them out.


    Admittedly, that probably wouldn't be their priority considering how rough things are as-is.


    And, although my original idea was simply a "fix-it" cliche like you said, it's progressed a bit further, giving more depth to the way we can perceive Remnant. The character's a physicist and an engineer, meaning we have someone who's an expert on how Remnant works. Is the Aura machine functioning on quantum mechanics, or is it simply a vacuum for one's soul? How do dust-based automatons work? This is the guy to go to.

  • Jianju

    Jianju FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold {zzz}°°°( -_-)>c[_]

    #33299566 - 10 months ago

    In reply to Marisa_K

    In reply to ImmaThinkin
    In reply to Liela
    In reply to TriNeX
    @ImmaThinkin
    @Liela
    @TriNeX
    Be prepared, in 3 weeks or less, the reply is coming.

    Ohohohoho!

    ohohoho.gif

    I finally have my reply ready!  See my ultimate reply to Pyrrha's death and if she may still be alive - or if she should be!!!  See link below  ...Ohohohoho!

    "Should Pyrrha Stay Dead?"

  • ImmaThinkin

    ImmaThinkin

    #33299655 - 10 months ago

    In reply to Marisa_K

    Yeah, I saw it. It was great; I'm thinking of doing a review of Volume 3, and I'll be sure to give you a shout-out. I was thinking about posting a comment on how I think she could come back, but let's face it: a random super-genius student working in the Vault with space powers falling through a wormhole, sucking up Pyrrha's remains with a black hole, falling through another wormhole into the vault, distilling Pyrrha's soul out of the ashes and shoving it into a duplicate body ISN'T EXACTLY SHOW-READY MATERIAL.

  • Jianju

    Jianju FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold {zzz}°°°( -_-)>c[_]

    #33299696 - 10 months ago

    In reply to ImmaThinkin
    L
    ol, 
    well, let me know when you make the vid, I'll definitely watch it!

  • DrPainKiller

    DrPainKiller

    #33299961 - 10 months ago

    probably the best way i can think of them bringing phyraa back is through visions that someone will see ( jaune most likely), she will be involved in the story but actually able to help them.

  • sthom0202

    sthom0202

    #33300299 - 10 months ago

    Personally, I feel like Pyrrah has about a 80% shot at staying dead and 20% for making it back alive. I am leaning, greatly, toward her being 'dead'. Here's why: 


    Jaune is based on Joan of Arc, who heard voices from angels. Pyrrah's stunt in the forest has a line in it that reads something like this "Unbound by death....by my shoulder I protect thee." Sooo, it would make perfect sense to me if Pyrrah became a sort of guardian angel for Jaune, that only he can see and interact with.


    What was the whole destiny arc about? Well, I think it was really about RUBY. Pyrrah was the carrier of the information, the person who we learned all this through. But the information itself was necessary for Ruby's development. What is Ruby's destiny? As a silver eyed warrior, was she born a huntress or did she choose to become one? Pyrrah and Ruby shared a dream, or one could call it a destiny, to protect people by becoming a huntress. In order for Ruby to truly fulfill HER destiny, Pyrrah had to meet her own destiny, thereby unlocking Ruby's powers.


    As far as her ashes scattering...personally, I took this in two ways. First, CINDER turned Pyrrah into cinders....yes, I think it's a bad one too. Two, what does Summer's grave say? "Thus, kindly I SCATTER." Considering the fact that we've only seen two people physically die (pyrrah and autumn), it's not really fair to say which method was the standard. So maybe in Remnant when you die you go back to being dust, and scatter like Pyrrah did, and like Summer's grave mentions.


    There is more but I'm a little sleep deprived right now, so this will have to do for the moment~

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33300301 - 10 months ago

    In reply to sthom0202

    We actually see merc dad body as well and we know Roman didn't do anything special either. Pyrrha is very unique.

    Also since summer last name is rose the scatter may in fact refer to that.

    From my phone

  • Jianju

    Jianju FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold {zzz}°°°( -_-)>c[_]

    #33300369 - 10 months ago

    In reply to sthom0202

    Yea, I can see them going the "guardian angel" route too... but if they do I would hate it.  (Just my personal opinion/feeling about it.  I'm sure some people would like that.  I mean, they can write whatever they want, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.)

    And the poetic stuff about dust and cremation, it's very nice to some people, but I would hate that too.  I readily admit though, that when it comes to the deaths of my favorite characters, I never like them - ever.  Though not really in any way connected, it reminds me of the quote from "Ever After" when the king says, "I will simply deny you the crown, and live forever!"

  • leonmasteries

    leonmasteries FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33316911 - 9 months ago

    This has been a few weeks, so time to throw in my 2 cents. Rooster Teeth is no stranger to bringing characters back from the dead, look at Tex and Church from Red vs Blue. Yes, we find out Tex is an AI of Carolina's dead mother and Church was an AI as well, but for some time, we saw those 2 come back on a normal basis, so I wouldn't put it past Rooster Teeth to come up with a way to bring her back.

    As for if she's alive, of course she is, why would they leave no remains of her body if she was dead? There's no actual proof she died to begin with, so thus it gives them tons of leeway to work with the concept of how she's still alive, because there are many ways to go about it. The most ideal is that Pyrrha became a pow for Salem, which makes sense since in season 2, we find out Cinder has plans for Pyrrha, BEFORE Pyrrha even knew about the Maidens. This means there's more going on then we're seeing. 

  • SneakyDex

    SneakyDex FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33317186 - 9 months ago

    At first I thought this theory was legit. And believe me you put a lot of effort into that, respect for that. But all you listed here were facts and parts of scenes that did not CONFIRM Pyrrhas death or did speak about a big destiny she had. 

    I mean I see it as possible that she is not dead for good, but seriously, the only way I could see her coming back would be that some part of her is somewhere in Cinder. Cinder, having stolen the power DURING the transfer might have gotten a small part of Pyrrha's aura inside of her, that is how I can see her being alive and actively relevant to the story later down the line. 


    Because if there is one thing I agree with you on (@OP) then it is that there are way too many references to the "2 souls in one body" plotline to actually be nothing in the end.

  • FettucCR

    FettucCR

    #33317203 - 9 months ago

    The writers are leaving a trail of bread crumbs, related to P-Monis. First, the one in the Vol4 poster, which is Jaune wearing a red sash, but was somewhat concealed and not clear. But in the Vol4 intro, it was shown openly. Second, Nora's shirt modified its heart motif, with a line crossing it, perhaps (and I'm not sure if this stretching things a lot) referencing her supposed death. Third, Jaune's shield, remade with P-Monis' circlet as emblem.


    I don't know how symbolic or important these things will be in the future, but they're there. What do you think?

  • kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19

    #33318956 - 9 months ago

    After being introduced to the Geist in V4's first episode I can't help but wonder if the whole Geist's power of taking over things will take part of Pyrrha coming back should it happen? It's very supernatural based after all and we've yet to go into further of how magic works in Remnant so who knows?

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33318978 - 9 months ago

    In reply to kaijuguy19

    That has been discussed a LOT since the manga first introduced the concept with Weiss's knight. Its a path to be sure the question is will they use it.